A question about right & left hand samples

A question about right & left hand samples

Postby Wolfgang » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:01 pm

For my first sample project I was unsuccessfully searching the web for information about the creation of right & left hand samples. This is more a Aerodrums thing, normally e-drums (and DAWs) doesn’t care about left & right hand hits, they are using randomization if I’ve understood right.

For example, I have a folder with 100 snare samples going from loud to soft and numbered from 0 to 99. What I’ve done is putting all even numbers in a “r” named folder and the others in a “l” named one.

Is it a good solution doing like this, or are there other/better ways for separating right & left hand samples for Aerodrums?
Wolfgang
 
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Re: A question about right & left hand samples

Postby Richard » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:54 am

Yes, that's correct. Generally, e-drums don't distinguish between left and right hits because unlike Aerodrums they can't tell if a pad was hit with the left hand or the right hand. Instead, I think what is normally done is that for each volume level, they have a 2 or more sampled hits and they round robin between these or choose one at random.

What you're doing sounds reasonable but personally I would just put all the samples for your element in the same folder (no need to create "l" and "r" subfolders). In this case Aerodrums will pick a sample whose volume corresponds best to the hit velocity and it will do this in the same way for left hand and right hand hits.
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Re: A question about right & left hand samples

Postby Wolfgang » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:30 pm

Many thanks for clarifying this. By the way, are you ok with my other topic? I was so happy hearing the result of my hard work that I just wanted to tell it to everybody. But after re-reading I’m not sure if I’m infringing forum rules and if this is the case you can take it of, I won’t cry for censuring.
But if it’s the contrary and you think setting up a more detailed how-to for the users of the stand-alone versions could be even useful (DAW users might not need this), I could do it.
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Re: A question about right & left hand samples

Postby Richard » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:56 pm

We have not spoken to the companies in question about this but a reading of the conditions of use for at least one of the popular drum VSTis would suggest that ripping the samples for use in Aerodrums would not breach their terms. I think they would consider this fair use as long as the samples are not shared for use by anyone else and I agree with you there is a potential market for them here.

Of course we shouldn't forget the option of using Aerodrums in MIDI mode with an external host (e.g. a DAW) running the VSTi. There are a couple of downsides to this though, compared to if we added the ability to host VSTis directly inside Aerodrums (a feature we'd still like to add) and also compared to what you're doing. The main disadvantage is that we don't have the ability to control the volume at which ghost notes are played back. Aerodrums feels much better when we're able to play back a sample at a volume that scales granularly with hit velocity such that tiny stick movements result in almost inaudible ghost notes.

I think the ideal solution is to add VSTi hosting in Aerodrums. This would give the best of both worlds and result in low latency, high fidelity drumming while not requiring the user to rip samples from their VSTis.
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Re: A question about right & left hand samples

Postby Wolfgang » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:14 pm

The main disadvantage is that we don't have the ability to control the volume at which ghost notes are played back. Aerodrums feels much better when we're able to play back a sample at a volume that scales granularly with hit velocity such that tiny stick movements result in almost inaudible ghost notes.

Sorry, I’ve red this two sentences about 10 times, but I cannot get really the sense of what you mean (maybe because I’m German). Are you speaking about the vstis? For instant I only know Addictive Drums 1, a library I acquired a long time ago(may be 10 years). There are kits which will “eat up” your ghost-strokes, others would amplify them, but there are also kits permitting a nice ghosting.
I’m using a lot of ghost-strokes and when I’ve tried my samples in Aerodrums my first impression was that the samples behaves like the original vsti-kit, I didn’t feel any difference. Now, after what you’ve said I compared my samples more in detail with the original kit (switching between only midi/no midi) and what I can say is that the instrument’s volumes aren’t the same, but the nuances are there. Even the “baked” sounds are working. With baked I mean mixing open hit samples with rim hits in the same folder before importing in Aerodrums.

Of course we shouldn't forget the option of using Aerodrums in MIDI mode with an external host (e.g. a DAW) running the VSTi.

I’m using Aerodrums exclusively in MIDI mode since nearly 2 years and I could never go back to the stock sounds (dessolé). Testing is adopting!

I think the ideal solution is to add VSTi hosting in Aerodrums. This would give the best of both worlds and result in low latency, high fidelity drumming while not requiring the user to rip samples from their VSTis.

Indeed, this would be a very important feature, at least equal to the feature eliminating light sources (which is by the way the best update you have brought to Aerodrums since I’ve bought mine in 2015).

1. this would eliminate the need of another program (e. g. the DAW), low-end machines would be happy and we wouldn’t have the hassle of chaining the two.

2. this would give a nice interface (the vsti-one) inside Aerodrums for selecting the sounds, something I would really prefer in Aerodrums:

setting up ONE kit in space and associating the sounds afterwards

3. but . . . I suppose this will take still some (a lot of) time to realise ( believe me, it’s not criticism, it’s compassion) and in the meantime actual users are left on their own.

Maybe you could even do a partnership with those companies, you give them an interface for their products and in counterpart they lets you integrate some demo-sounds/kits in Aerodrums?
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Re: A question about right & left hand samples

Postby Richard » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:47 pm

Sorry, I didn't explain it very well. MIDI velocity ranges from 0 to 127. It seems that with the majority of drum VSTis, if you send it a MIDI note with a velocity of 1 then it will trigger a relatively loud note, much louder than we would often trigger when the built-in Aerodrums sounds are used. We would like to trigger a quieter note in the VSTi but we can't because a value of 1 corresponds to the quietest hit. Generally, ghost notes that you didn't intend to play are played back so quietly when using the Aerodrums sounds that they are inaudible. But this is not the case with MIDI so you need to be even more careful with stick control to prevent unintended ghost notes triggering. I hope that provides some clarification.

We definitely agree that adding VSTi hosting inside Aerodrums would be a great feature. It would also allow use of WASAPI Exclusive for very low latency audio on Windows, an option that unfortunately doesn't seem to be provided by a lot of the popular DAWs.
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Re: A question about right & left hand samples

Postby bkmsx » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:18 pm

Thinking about this, a workaround is possible for when the vsti doesn't allow a response curve suitable to aerodrums;

would be to have a bespoke simple volume plugin(s) on the individual (vsti) audio outputs that is also responding to incoming aerodrums midi - velocities in particular, that would scale the volume to the right (low) level based on the incoming note velocity aerodrums supplies.
- This would be post processing FX so has limitation on compressed outputs etc. But clean stuff would work?

I think this could be achieved relatively easily in reaper at least, and perhaps neatly by the scripters, and I recall a jsfx can be converted to vst without too much bother.
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Re: A question about right & left hand samples

Postby Richard » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:53 pm

Yes, that's a good point. With a bit of work, it would indeed be possible to correct the velocities on the DAW side.
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Re: A question about right & left hand samples

Postby Wolfgang » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:38 pm

Richard

Generally, ghost notes that you didn't intend to play are played back so quietly when using the Aerodrums sounds that they are inaudible. But this is not the case with MIDI so you need to be even more careful with stick control to prevent unintended ghost notes triggering. I hope that provides some clarification.


Yes, I remember in the beginning when I was using Aerodrums with Addictive it was like I had to tame a wild animal. What I’ve done is setting the sensitivity of most instruments at their lowest value and setting the midi filters very high.

Richard

What you're doing sounds reasonable but personally I would just put all the samples for your element in the same folder (no need to create "l" and "r" subfolders). In this case Aerodrums will pick a sample whose volume corresponds best to the hit velocity and it will do this in the same way for left hand and right hand hits.


I’ve done like you’ve said and put the 100 samples in one folder, but what happens sometimes (rarely) is that I get a phasing sound when I hit the two sticks together. I suppose I’m triggering in these moments the same sample? I think I will retry with a left and right hand folder. I’ve also seen that Superior Drummer permits generating left and right hand samples.
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Re: A question about right & left hand samples

Postby Richard » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:18 am

That's probably what's happening. Unfortunately copying the same 100 samples into a left and right hand folder is unlikely to improve matters since you will still trigger the same sample for both hands if they hit at the same time and with the same velocity. But if your 100 samples are already sorted based on volume then you should try copy the 50 even numbered samples into the "l" folder and the 50 odd numbered samples into the "r" folder. This will ensure that the same sample is never triggered twice simultaneously.
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