customizable midi out per drum element

Re: customizable midi out per drum element

Postby Richard » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:23 am

Hi CaB, so far we've only tested Aerodrums with Native Instruments Studio Drummer and the hi-hat works fine with our custom MIDI mapping.

According to the Drum Lab manual, it comes with a selection of MIDI mapping presets, one of which is the General MIDI preset you're using. Could you try the other ones and see if the hi-hat behaves correctly with any of them? If it does then it should be possible to correct your problem by starting with the General MIDI preset, then fixing the hi-hat mapping based on how it's set up in the working preset and then saving the modified mapping under a new name.
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Re: customizable midi out per drum element

Postby CaBleman » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:20 am

I have the exact same problem with the free MT Powerdrum Kit VST, not only in NI Drumlabs
Again, the pedal down and up events are being sent fine to the host and VST.
It's just that the closed sound does not work, and when going from from open to closed HH pedal there is a correct muting sound and after that - and I did not change pedal in between - the open sound plays. So to me that means the state of CLOSED HH is not being transmitted or regarded in a way.
In standalone, this works quite well, not with MIDI it seems...

[Meanwhile, an hour later] I did some "measuring", with Midi-OX and in the MIDI Settings MT Powerdrum Kit:
Aerodrum definitely sends MIDI note A# for closed hi hat (with pedal down) where it should be F#...!?
It sends G# for half closed/open and A# for open (both correct for GM I assume)

Does nobody else have that problem?

Bye,

CaB
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Re: customizable midi out per drum element

Postby Sipaliwini » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:13 am

Hello, I think you are having a similar problem to a MDrummer user: MDrummer does not support Continuous Controller messages to adjust the exact level of openness of the hi-hat, so it expects different notes for open and closed. We have implemented a work-around for such samplers but it is not exposed in the interface. I am sending you a pm to explain how to activate it.

This issue will be solved once we release the ability to customise MIDI messages.

So far, all the samplers we have seen that accept Continuous Controllers for hi-hat openness expect A# as the hi hat note.
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Re: customizable midi out per drum element

Postby CaBleman » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:29 am

Thanks for the info. I can get back to Native Instrument with that for Drumlab...
Cheers CaB
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Re: customizable midi out per drum element

Postby CaBleman » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:11 am

On the side, if may ask,

it seems to work with NI Studio Drummer which is also a Kontakt based instrument.
You offer special MIDI conf files for that. What was changed or special about that config?
Is it actually for Kontakt or a dedicated setup for Studio Drummer?
If it was for Kontakt I could maybe apply the same tweaks...

I've never seen or used Studio Drummer - are there any settings for continuous controllers to tweak?
Because in the Drumlab interface you can tweak a lot of MIDI stuff but nothing about a continuous controller...

thx & bye
CaB
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Re: customizable midi out per drum element

Postby Richard » Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:56 pm

Our Studio Drummer MIDI mapping preset is not for Kontakt, it is specifically for Studio Drummer so it is unlikely to work with Drumlab.

I remember we had to do a little experimentation to figure out how to get the hi-hat working because the Studio Drummer hi-hat has a lot of different articulations you can map notes to (see screenshot).

In the end, these are the assignments we used:

DO - OPEN CONTROL
G#1 - CLOSED PEDAL
A#1 - OPEN CONTROL

With any luck the Drumlab hi-hat will have similar articulations and you can try the above mapping. To answer your last question, there doesn't seem to be any settings in the Studio Drummer interface that relate to the hi-hat continuous controller.

Image
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Re: customizable midi out per drum element

Postby CaBleman » Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:01 pm

Thank you, Richard,

Here are the options for the hi hat one the Drumlab MIDI Mapping page, see attachment.
I'm testing it as we "speak"...

Cheers,

CaB
Attachments
Drumlab_HiHat_Articulations.jpg
Drum Lab Hi Hat Articulations in MIDI Mapping
Drumlab_HiHat_Articulations.jpg (168.63 KiB) Viewed 12430 times
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Re: customizable midi out per drum element

Postby CaBleman » Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:31 pm

OK, I did not get much further and I tell you why.
Yes in Drumlab you can set the instrument and its articulation for every MIDI note that is being sent.

BUT Aerodrums always sends A#1 and never F#1.
It should be F#1 when the pedal is closed (the default for a hi hat I reckon ;) )
and A#1 when the pedal is open. For starters.

So how could I differ between closed and open w/o CC support? Which note should I use for closed hi hat?
(not closed pedal which is the muting sound I reckon)

I can't believe that this has never come up before? What about the real drummers out there? Do you all use drum software with CC support?
And actually, in Studio Drummer and Battery there should be same problem if Aerodrum never sends F#1...

Another thing I have noticed: I play obviously quite hard, so it appears that above a certain velocity on the hi hat a D0 is triggered (yeah and I just read how to amend the threshold).
Why would you acually point that to Open Control in your Studio Drummer example and not to shank/bow in addition to tip/edge? So one would have to trigger the open sound via velocity? With my (very bad) playing style, I'm not capable of doing that, sorry.

When one sees the hi hat closed in Aerodrums GUI, it should send a note for closed sound. When one sees it open, it should send a note for open sound. As a default behaviour.
In my opinion.
Anything regarding CC is a specialty and should be configurable.

This is the third day that I wasted with tests and experiments, PLEASE! NO MORE! ;)

Cheers

CaB
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Re: customizable midi out per drum element

Postby Sipaliwini » Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:51 pm

The most popular samplers are covered by our presets, this could explain why this hasn't come up. Also, in case you haven't noticed you are not dealing with a multinational corporation here ;)
If the work around I PMed you did not work, I can send you a custom executable.

A real hi-hat is never just fully closed, for starters there can be pressure applied which a good sampler should want to make use of.
For this reason, considering that some of the popular samplers we tried disregarded the CC value when F# ("closed") is sent, we decided not to send it and let samplers look at the CC to decide if the pedal is closed.

We may revisit this, but if it stays like that by default, then we will add a toggle for MDrummer and Drumlab.
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Re: customizable midi out per drum element

Postby Sipaliwini » Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:55 pm

I forgot to add, Aerodrums works fine with Studio Drummer when using the preset we provide. This is because Studio Drummer looks at the CC value, sees that the hi-hat is closed and plays closed samples.
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