JACK Audio Connection Kit Problems

[peteramour]

Hello,
I am making a somewhat intricate audio routing setup for playing Aerodrums with EZDrummer (loopBE midi), using JACK Audio server (WIndows 11), for internal routing of signals, so I can play in realtime internet jamming / rehearsal software (Jamulus and Sonobus).

I want to go this way (JACK Audio) because latency is of the essence (I can get as low as 16samples with no additional latency of the virtual routing), and none of these softwares support a VST plugin, so i have to internally route the audio from EZDrummer Standalone using JACK ASIO Driver, to the JACK Audio server inputs, then route it to the usb soundboard output. I´ll leave a pic attached so it is better understood.

My issue is that everything is working fine and audio is going where is supposed to, except for the moment I turn on Aerodrums and I make a hit in any kit piece and it immediatelly shutsdown the JACK Audio Server, so I cant play. I don´t know where the problem is coming. Is it a MIDI or Audio conflict with camera drivers?
Also JACK ASIO Driver is not detected in the devices list of Aerodrums so I can´t try this setting and see if it solves anything.

I am going crazy trying to figure it out!

Can someone shed some light over this subject? Help would be appreciated.

Thank you

PS.: I can do this setup with Reaper and ASIO Rearoute with no problems, except the added latency ineherent of using Reaper as a DAW. That is why I would like to go full JACK.

SCREENSHOT
https://app.gemoo.com/share/image-annot ... lgenerator

[Wolfgang]

Hi,
First I’m astonished that you get noticeable latency with Reaoute. I’ve tried both, Jack and Rearoute and I don’t find any difference between them, beside that Rearoute is much more practical to use. I’m using Jamulus with Aerodrums since mars 2020 and have made several posts in this forum (you can find them all by doing a research on Jamulus)
In the very first one I’ve wrote this:

But for using them with Aerodrums you need two computers, each one with an ASIO compatible soundcard, because both are running with 48KHz whilst Aerodrums runs with 44,1KHz.

And I think this is the origin of your problem!

May I suggest another approach.
First verify your Buffer Settings in the UMC Control Panel. Should be 64 samples or less if possible (but not more than 128). Do this BEFORE starting Reaper!
Then deactivate any sound support in Aerodrums, but keep loopBE1 as MIDI output. In Reaper chose loopBE1 as MIDI-in device, create a new Track (input loopBE1) and put the VSTi version of EZDrummer onto it. Open Routing for this track deactivate master send and create a new hardware output.

Jamulus in.jpg (67.71 KiB) Viewed 38509 times

Then create a new track for the signal coming back from Jamulus and chose Rearoute as input.

Jamulus out.jpg (45.48 KiB) Viewed 38509 times

After in Jamulus select Rearoute 1 / 2 as in- and output.

You can also use any FX in Reaper and create additional Rearoutes to additional Jamulus clients. Reaper is just indispensable for Jamulus. Not at least for reading your recordings separated as tracks.
I’m using this setup since maybe 2 years now with 2 separate Jamulus clients (one for Aerodrums and one for backing-tracks) on the same computer. BTW. I have my own Jamulus server with several instances (private and public) and a local directory server running 24/24.
But sadly I cannot help you with Sonobus.

PS:
Maybe your solution might work by just deactivating sound in Aerodrums (no sound-card) or by choosing MIDI only in the MIDI settings.

[peteramour]

Thanks for the reply and thorough explanation!

Fortunately I also been using this type of ReaRoute setup several years, but only one Jamulus instance, no need for more.

In my question I was trying to understand whats happening with JACK and why he keeps shutting down everytime i hit a drum. I am trying to explore new and alternative virtual audio routing setups. I already tried disabling sound in Aerodrums, MIDI only, changing playback device.... still crashes JACK. Oh well... Not a big a deal because I use ReaRoute all the time.

Since your explanation was so thourough and you were so willing to help, I also will share a couple of tips, regarding playing backing tracks, directly in Reaper, so you dont have to use a second instance of jamulus. This is exactly how I do it, think of it as an alternative setup.

There was a developer, sadly already deceased, that was working in some kind of Asio drivers server (don´t know how to explain it better). The software is called ODEUS ASIO LINK, and his family released it for free. It is somewhat complex to understand and a bit confusing, but you can use it to route WDM Outputs from your system to an input in Reaper, working as virtual patch from system to Reaper.

Why all this introduction to this software?
Because the same developer has another piece of software that is very useful, and simpler to use. It is called WDM2VST. It installs a virtual WDM Driver in your computer and has a second component as a VST Plugin. You install the software, then assign your windows audio output or a specific application to WDM2VST virtual soundcard out, and all the sound is now going through that virtual device. Then in Reaper just insert the plugin in one track, arm the track for monitoring and voilà! You can play backing tracks from your library, or play something from youtube in your browser, or just about anything you route to that virtual sound output in windows.

There are also other softwares for virtual audio routing, but this one is specifically resolving my needs, since it a VST that i conveniently can use in any DAW.

Well, you probably already knew all this stuff and still prefer to use the second Jamulus client, but if not, give it a try! The only difference is that only you can control the backing track volume in your mixer instead of all the other persons connected to your jamulus session. This could be a downside in a way, but in another way it is one less jamulus window.... Just thought to share this.

Another thing... Sonobus has a built in audio player, a metronome, video call with no noticeable latency, individual track fx such as reverb, eq, gate, compressor, and the audio is much more cleaner than in jamulus, you can use it in uncompressed wav 16 bit, 24bit, no latency, just bandwith and internet provider speed needed. I recently tried it and was blown away with all this convenience... it lacks a vst instrument player (the developer is aware and could implement it in the future), that´s why I need a vst host such as Reaper. Oh and you can use Sonobus in Standalone or.... as a VST in Reaper, receiving the desired mix from your daw! Also give it a try with other jammers, it is much better than when I tryed it years ago.

Thank you, let´s keep sharing ideas!

[Wolfgang]

Thanks for the reply and thorough explanation!

You just have beaten me.

… but only one Jamulus instance, no need for more.
… he only difference is that only you can control the backing track volume in your mixer instead of all the other persons connected to your jamulus session.

This is exactly the point. No-one wants to hear the backing-track the same, especially if it’s a metronome. Also using 2 or more instances of Jamulus can be interesting if you have a sound-card with more than 2 entries (I have the UMC1820, the big sister of yours). By routing (with Rearoute) your entries to different clients you can do mixed sessions, were some are in the same room and others connected from the outside, and everyone can do his personal mix.

SONOBUS
No doubt, Sonobus is much more feature-rich than Jamulus, for Jamulus it’s by design, but all these features you can have by using third-party software. When I said that I cannot help you with Sonobus it doesn’t mean I don’t know nothing about it. I know it has a better sound quality by using less/no compression. But Sonobus is peer to peer, that means everyone needs to open a connection to everyone and your bandwidth grows with each new musician and this for everyone. But the biggest problem for me is that there is no synchronization between the users. Everyone hears something else depending on the ping times they see to the other users. If there are few users and they have very low ping times all will be well. But for bigger groups and more widely varying ping times that will make playing synchronization impossible as what one person hears as synchronous will not be what another hears as synchronous.
Jamulus' server provides a synchronizing point so that everyone hears the same signal. If you adjust your singing/playing to be synchronous with someone else, everyone else on the server will also hear it as synchronous. Thus it is possible for a whole group to play together synchronously despite their varying ping times.

I don’t think Big bands like this would be possible with Sonobus

The SBCC Lunch Break Big Band pays tribute to Sammy Nestico


nor here, were over 100! musicians and singers all over the Netherlands are performing “Wilhelmus” for King's Day.

Wilhelmus Live via Jamulus en Zoom


But I will give it a try, for months a friend of mine wants me to install it.

Back to your problem.
If I would be you I would try from the Aerodrums side (without Jamulus). Can you choose Jack as audio device in Aerodrums if you set 44,1 kHz in Jack? Does it still shutdown the JACK Audio Server? BTW, do you have installed the 32 and 64 bit version of Jack? I think you need both.
Same for Rearoute. Can you choose Rearoute as audio device in Aerodrums? For this I’m sure you need to install the 32 AND 64 bit version of Reaper (Rearoute), if not you will not see it in Aerodrums, which is a 32 bit program.
Besides this is my setup on my laptop for live playing, Aerodrums → Rearoute → Reaper so I can control FX, EQ and volume of Aerodrums in realtime with my MIDI controller keyboard.

Also JACK ASIO Driver is not detected in the devices list of Aerodrums so I can´t try this setting and see if it solves anything.

Sorry, I haven't seen that you have already tried this. But I know it works (had worked for me). If you cannot see it, it is certainly because you haven’t set Jack to 44,1 kHz or you really need to install Jack 32 AND 64 bit versions.
Another thing I’ve seen very often by changing sound devices in Aerodrums: If you don’t see a device which should be there, you need first to select “no sound” → Apply → close device window (maybe even Aerodrums). And when you reopen the device window you will find your device.

the same developer has another piece of software that is very useful, and simpler to use. It is called WDM2VST. It installs a virtual WDM Driver in your computer and has a second component as a VST Plugin.

I was looking for something like this a long time ago, it sounds very interesting, but sadly I think it’s definitely gone, I tried half an hour to find it on the internet, but only dead links and one cracked version.
Today I’m using Voice Meeter Banana as multimedia mixer. A lot of possibilities but their Asio driver sucks.
Keep me up to date with your testings.

[Wolfgang]

Another thing comes to my mind. Looking at your picture in the first post I supposed you have the Behringer UMC204HD, and if it’s true, we are using the same driver. I’m still on the “UMC Driver 4.59” and everything I wrote is for this driver-version. Last version is "UMC Driver 5.57.0".